Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205

02/06/2012 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY


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01:03:26 PM Start
01:03:33 PM Overview(s): Ballot Initiative 11acmp - Establishing the Alaska Coastal Management Program
02:52:07 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Please Note Location Change --
Joint with Senate JUD
+ Initiatives certified by the Lieutenant Governor: TELECONFERENCED
11ACMP: "An Act establishing the Alaska Coastal
Management Program"
Presentations by:
- Doug Gardner, Director, Legislative Legal
Services Division, Legislative Affairs Agency
- Susan Bell, Commissioner, Dept. of Commerce,
Community and Economic Development - invited
- John Boucher, Senior Economist, Office of
Management and Budget
- Bruce Botehlo, Mayor of Juneau, Initiative
Sponsor - available for questions
- Gail Fenumiai, Director, Division of Elections,
Office of the Lieutenant Governor
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                         JOINT MEETING                                                                                        
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
              SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        February 6, 2012                                                                                        
                           1:03 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Carl Gatto, Chair                                                                                               
 Representative Steve Thompson, Vice Chair                                                                                      
 Representative Wes Keller                                                                                                      
 Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                        
 Representative Lance Pruitt                                                                                                    
 Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                   
 Representative Lindsey Holmes                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Hollis French, Chair                                                                                                   
 Senator Bill Wielechowski, Vice Chair                                                                                          
 Senator Joe Paskvan                                                                                                            
 Senator John Coghill                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Mike Chenault (alternate)                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JUDICIARY                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Kathy Giessel                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW(S):  BALLOT INITIATIVE 11ACMP - ESTABLISHING THE ALASKA                                                                
COASTAL MANAGEMENT PROGRAM                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DOUGLAS GARDNER, Director                                                                                                       
Legal Services                                                                                                                  
Legislative Legal and Research Services                                                                                         
Legislative Affairs Agency (LAA)                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented the  overview of ballot initiative                                                             
11ACMP - establishing the Alaska Coastal Management Program.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALPHEUS BULLARD, Attorney                                                                                                       
Legislative Legal Counsel                                                                                                       
Legislative Legal and Research Services                                                                                         
Legislative Affairs Agency (LAA)                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Responded to questions  during the overview                                                             
of  ballot initiative  11ACMP -  establishing the  Alaska Coastal                                                               
Management Program.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN BELL, Commissioner                                                                                                        
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development (DCCED)                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Provided   comments  and   responded  to                                                             
questions  during  the overview  of  ballot  initiative 11ACMP  -                                                               
establishing the Alaska Coastal Management Program.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JOHN BOUCHER, Senior Economist                                                                                                  
Office of the Director                                                                                                          
Office of Management & Budget (OMB)                                                                                             
Office of the Governor                                                                                                          
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Provided   comments  and   responded  to                                                             
questions  during  the overview  of  ballot  initiative 11ACMP  -                                                               
establishing the Alaska Coastal Management Program.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE M. BOTELHO, Chair                                                                                                         
Alaska Sea Party:  Restoring Coastal Management                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   As one  of the  ballot initiative's  joint                                                             
prime  sponsors, responded  to questions  during the  overview of                                                               
ballot  initiative  11ACMP  -  establishing  the  Alaska  Coastal                                                               
Management Program.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
GAIL FENUMIAI, Director                                                                                                         
Central Office                                                                                                                  
Division of Elections                                                                                                           
Office of the Lieutenant Governor                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Provided comments  during the  overview of                                                             
ballot  initiative  11ACMP  -  establishing  the  Alaska  Coastal                                                               
Management Program.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:03:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HOLLIS  FRENCH called  the joint meeting  of the  House and                                                             
Senate  Judiciary  Standing  Committees  to order  at  1:03  p.m.                                                               
Present at  the call to  order from the House  Judiciary Standing                                                               
Committee were  Representatives Gatto, Thompson,  Holmes, Keller,                                                               
and  Pruitt; Representatives  Gruenberg and  Lynn arrived  as the                                                               
meeting  was in  progress.   Present  from  the Senate  Judiciary                                                               
Standing Committee  were Senators French,  Wielechowski, Paskvan,                                                               
and Coghill.   Representative Kerttula  and Senator  Giessel were                                                               
also in attendance.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
^Overview(s):    Ballot  Initiative  11ACMP  -  Establishing  the                                                               
Alaska Coastal Management Program                                                                                               
 Overview(s):  Ballot Initiative 11ACMP - Establishing the Alaska                                                           
                   Coastal Management Program                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:03:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH [announced that the  only order of business would be                                                               
an  overview  of  ballot initiative  11ACMP  -  establishing  the                                                               
Alaska Coastal Management Program].                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GATTO  explained that the committees  wouldn't be proposing                                                               
amendments to 11ACMP but would  instead just be discussing it for                                                               
purposes of understanding it.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:05:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOUGLAS GARDNER, Director, Legal  Services, Legislative Legal and                                                               
Research Services, Legislative Affairs  Agency (LAA), noting that                                                               
11ACMP would  add a  new Chapter 41  - Alaska  Coastal Management                                                               
Program - to Title 46 [which  pertains to water, air, energy, and                                                               
environmental  conservation,]  explained that  11ACMP's  proposed                                                               
AS 46.41.010 would  establish within the Department  of Commerce,                                                               
Community  &  Economic  Development  (DCCED)  an  Alaska  Coastal                                                               
Policy   Board  made   up  of   nine  public   members  and   the                                                               
commissioners  of the  Department  of Environmental  Conservation                                                               
(DEC),  the  Alaska  Department  of  Fish  &  Game  (ADF&G),  the                                                               
Department of Natural  Resources (DNR), and the DCCED.   The nine                                                               
public  members must  be appointed  from  the geographic  regions                                                               
outlined  in  proposed   subsection  (a)(1)(A)-(I);  shall  serve                                                               
three-year staggered  terms; and are eligible  for reappointment.                                                               
Proposed AS 46.41.010 additionally  provides for alternate public                                                               
members  or   commissioners  to   be  appointed   or  designated,                                                               
respectively;  provides for  one public-member  co-chair and  one                                                               
commissioner  co-chair  to be  designated  by  the policy  board;                                                               
allows the policy  board to recommend that the  governor remove a                                                               
public member for cause; stipulates  that each member shall serve                                                               
until  a  successor  is  appointed;   stipulates  that  a  quorum                                                               
consists of five  public members and two  commissioners, and that                                                               
all decisions shall be by a  majority vote of the members present                                                               
and voting; entitles the public  members, or their alternates, to                                                               
per diem and travel expenses;  and stipulates that administrative                                                               
support  shall  be  provided  by [the  department  -  defined  in                                                               
proposed AS 46.41.900(7) as] the DCCED.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARDNER observed that members'  packets contain a spreadsheet                                                               
comparing the  proposed program with  previous programs  and past                                                               
proposed  legislation,  and  noted   that  one  of  the  previous                                                               
programs fell under the purview of  the DNR.  Reading portions of                                                               
subsections  (a)(1)-(7)  and   (b)(1)-(2)  of  11ACMP's  proposed                                                               
AS 46.41.020, he  went on to  explain that this  section outlines                                                               
the powers  and duties  of the  policy board,  stipulating [among                                                               
other things]  that the  proposed program  must be  in conformity                                                               
with the federal Coastal Zone  Management Act of 1972, which sets                                                               
forth  details of  what  constitutes a  qualifying  program.   He                                                               
mentioned  that he  isn't clear  about what's  meant by  proposed                                                               
subsection (b)'s stipulations that the  policy board may contract                                                               
for necessary  services and take any  reasonable action necessary                                                               
to carry  out the  provisions of  AS 46.41,  characterizing these                                                               
stipulations as providing for a very broad power.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:13:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARDNER  indicated that 11ACMP's proposed  AS 46.41.030 would                                                               
establish within  the DCCED a  new division of ocean  and coastal                                                               
management, and specifies [among  other things] that the division                                                               
would   render  all   federal   consistency  determinations   and                                                               
authorized   certifications,   and  certain   state   consistency                                                               
determinations;  would  adopt  necessary regulations;  and  would                                                               
address the issue of financial  assistance for coastal districts.                                                               
Reading  portions  of  subsection (a)(1)-(3)(A)-(H)  of  11ACMP's                                                               
proposed AS 46.41.040,  he indicated that [in  part] this section                                                               
addresses  the development  of  the  proposed program,  including                                                               
stipulating what the aforementioned  regulations shall include or                                                               
address, such as standards,  criteria, processes, and procedures,                                                               
for example.   He mentioned,  however, that he isn't  clear about                                                               
what  kinds of  activities would  either trigger  or be  excluded                                                               
from   the  "consistency   review"   referred   to  in   proposed                                                               
AS 46.41.040(a)(3)(B) and (H).                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER  referred to  11ACMP's  proposed  AS 46.41.050,  and                                                               
relayed that it  outlines the objectives with  which the proposed                                                               
program  must be  consistent; these  objectives are  functionally                                                               
similar  to those  of one  of the  previous programs,  though the                                                               
proposed program  would have three  new objectives -  outlined in                                                               
paragraphs  (9), (10),  and  (11) -  and it  would  also have  to                                                               
consider the overall quality of  the coastal environment for both                                                               
this and succeeding generations.   He then paraphrased paragraphs                                                               
(9)-(11),  and, in  response to  a question,  offered his  belief                                                               
that being  consistent with the  objectives outlined  in proposed                                                               
AS   46.41.050    wouldn't   require   the   program    to   seek                                                               
appropriations.   Paraphrasing 11ACMP's  proposed AS  46.41.060 -                                                               
which addresses  the development  of district  coastal management                                                               
plans  - he  indicated  that [proposed  subsection (a)]  mandates                                                               
that coastal districts adopt management  plans, and then outlines                                                               
what those  plans must be based  upon and what they  must entail;                                                               
[proposed subsection  (b) outlines what's required]  in order for                                                               
the policy board to approve  an initial or amended district plan;                                                               
and proposed  subsection (c) outlines when  an enforceable policy                                                               
would be preempted.   He observed that  proposed AS 46.41.900(11)                                                               
and  (14) define  the terms,  "local  knowledge" and  "scientific                                                               
evidence"    as    those    terms   are    used    in    proposed                                                               
AS 46.41.060(b)(2)(F), but  mentioned that  he isn't  clear about                                                               
whether  [proposed subsection  (b)'s  stipulations] would  "bleed                                                               
into"  the  types of  regulations  that  the policy  board  would                                                               
adopt.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:23:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER,   paraphrasing  11ACMP's  proposed   AS  46.41.070,                                                               
indicated that  it establishes  a one-year  deadline -  from when                                                               
the  proposed program's  regulations  take effect  - for  coastal                                                               
districts  to review  their management  plan, and,  if necessary,                                                               
submit a  revised one that  would comply with  those regulations.                                                               
Paraphrasing   11ACMP's  proposed   AS  46.41.080   -  addressing                                                               
implementation  of district  plans -  he indicated  it stipulates                                                               
that coastal  districts which exercise  zoning or  other controls                                                               
shall  implement their  management  plan  themselves, that  those                                                               
that don't shall  have their management plans  implemented by the                                                               
appropriate state  agencies, and that implementation  shall be in                                                               
accordance with  the plan or  statement adopted by  the district.                                                               
Still   paraphrasing,  he   indicated   that  11ACMP's   proposed                                                               
AS 46.41.090 addresses  the issues of compliance  and enforcement                                                               
by stipulating that those  entities administering regulations and                                                               
controls  pertaining  to  land  and  water use  shall  do  so  in                                                               
conformity with a  district's management plan, and  that it's the                                                               
Alaska Superior Court which has enforcement jurisdiction.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARDNER  offered his  understanding that  the rest  of 11ACMP                                                               
addresses what  he called, "units"  in unorganized  boroughs that                                                               
would be created in order  to implement district plans.  Proposed                                                               
AS   46.41.110  stipulates   how  coastal-resource   service-area                                                               
boundaries are to be determined;  "there's ... an attempt made to                                                               
organize  service areas  based on  the  ... regional  educational                                                               
attendance areas that are defined in AS 14.08.031" he added.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COGHILL asked whether that  constitutes a new approach to                                                               
organizing coastal resource service areas.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:27:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ALPHEUS   BULLARD,    Attorney,   Legislative    Legal   Counsel,                                                               
Legislative  Legal  and  Research Services,  Legislative  Affairs                                                               
Agency  (LAA), said  it does  not, adding  that many  of 11ACMP's                                                               
provisions  addressing this  issue  track those  of  [one of  the                                                               
previous programs] and other, since-repealed, laws.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARDNER, returning to his  presentation and paraphrasing from                                                               
11ACMP, indicated  that [proposed AS 46.41.120]  addresses voting                                                               
[related to the organization of]  coastal resource service areas,                                                               
and  involvement  by  the  lieutenant   governor  [as  the  state                                                               
official  responsible for  the Division  of Elections];  and that                                                               
proposed  AS  46.41.130 pertains  to  elected  boards of  coastal                                                               
resource  service   areas,  [addressing  their   powers,  duties,                                                               
makeup, and terms, as well  as elections, vacancies, recalls, and                                                               
per diem  and travel expenses].   In  response to a  question, he                                                               
paraphrased proposed  AS 46.41.130(h), and surmised  from it that                                                               
service area board members would receive per diem.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER,   paraphrasing  11ACMP's  proposed   AS  46.41.140,                                                               
relayed that  it addresses elections in  coastal resource service                                                               
areas, stipulating that  election costs shall be paid  for by the                                                               
state  and  that  the  elections shall  be  administered  by  the                                                               
lieutenant governor, and providing  him/her with the authority to                                                               
promulgate   necessary  regulations.     Referring   to  11ACMP's                                                               
proposed AS 46.41.150,  and noting that it bears  similarity to a                                                               
provision of  one of the  previous programs, he relayed  that [in                                                               
part] it provides a mechanism by  which the DCCED could prepare a                                                               
district coastal  management plan in situations  where the voters                                                               
fail to  approve organizing a  coastal resource service  area and                                                               
certain  activity  has  or  will  occur.    He  also  noted  that                                                               
[proposed AS 46.41.150] contains typographical [errors].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER  explained  that   11ACMP's  proposed  AS  46.41.160                                                               
creates  a   process  by  which   a  proposed   district  coastal                                                               
management  plan can  be  reviewed by  those  within the  coastal                                                               
resource  service  area  prior  to the  plan's  adoption  by  the                                                               
service area board, and stipulates  that those within the service                                                               
area would have 60 days in  which to either [approve] the plan or                                                               
enter objections  to it  or parts of  it.   Paraphrasing 11ACMP's                                                               
proposed  46.41.170, he  indicated it  stipulates [in  subsection                                                               
(a)]  that a  city  which  is not  part  of  an adjacent  coastal                                                               
resource service area  shall be included in it  anyway unless the                                                               
city's  governing body  passes a  resolution  in opposition;  and                                                               
specifies [in subsection (b)] that  nothing in AS 64.41 restricts                                                               
or  prohibits cooperative  or joint  administration of  functions                                                               
[when such has been agreed upon  by] a municipality and a coastal                                                               
resource service area.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:35:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BULLARD, in  response to questions, relayed  that although he                                                               
isn't  sure how  the term  "municipality" -  used in  proposed AS                                                               
46.41.170(b) - was meant to  be applied in 11ACMP, the definition                                                               
of that  term [in existing  AS 01.10.060] includes  boroughs; and                                                               
indicated  that  [proposed  AS  46.41.170(a)]  addresses  certain                                                               
cities in  unorganized boroughs but not  such boroughs themselves                                                               
as a whole.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GARDNER,   paraphrasing  11ACMP's  proposed   AS  46.41.180,                                                               
indicated it stipulates that nothing  in proposed AS 46.41 should                                                               
be construed to  diminish state jurisdiction.   In conclusion, he                                                               
mentioned   that   11ACMP's   proposed  AS   46.41.900   provides                                                               
definitions  [of the  terms  used  in 11ACMP].    In response  to                                                               
questions, he  indicated that the  court would have  to determine                                                               
on a  case-by-case basis -  using a  three-part test -  whether a                                                               
particular   piece   of   proposed   legislation   is   in   fact                                                               
substantially   the  same   as  a   particular  proposed   ballot                                                               
initiative; for  example, the court  would consider  whether both                                                               
the  legislation  and the  ballot  initiative  address a  complex                                                               
issue, whether  both have the  same general purpose,  and whether                                                               
both attempt to  effectuate that purpose via the same  means.  He                                                               
predicted  that because  11ACMP  addresses a  complex issue,  the                                                               
legislature would be given more latitude to vary from it.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:47:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN  BELL, Commissioner,  Department of  Commerce, Community  &                                                               
Economic  Development  (DCCED),  relayed  that  for  purposes  of                                                               
implementing  11ACMP's  proposed  program, certain  aspects  will                                                               
require more work.  She explained:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     We'll  need to  address  the sequencing  of actions  to                                                                    
     establish  the proposed  program.   In  turn, this  can                                                                    
     affect the  ... implementation timing and  cost.  [The]                                                                    
     DCCED  will  need  to   acquire  expertise  related  to                                                                    
     setting resource standards  and coordinating permitting                                                                    
     with   state  and   federal  agencies.     The   newly-                                                                    
     established  board will  ... need  to resolve  some ...                                                                    
     ambiguity  about   the  role  of  state   agencies  and                                                                    
     municipalities  concerning   reviews,  monitoring,  and                                                                    
     enforcement     discussed     in    the     initiative.                                                                    
     Implementation  of  the   initiative  is  dependent  on                                                                    
     several decisions  outside of  the [DCCED], ...  and we                                                                    
     must acknowledge that ... because  of the board's role,                                                                    
     there is  some inherent  uncertainty about  the program                                                                    
     at this point. ...                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I  think it's  important  to ...  discuss  how ...  the                                                                    
     program does fit  in the [DCCED].   First, our agencies                                                                    
     administer and implement a wide  array of programs that                                                                    
     impact      communities,     businesses,      nonprofit                                                                    
     organizations,  residents,  other state  agencies,  and                                                                    
     many  others  in  the  state.    The  program  requires                                                                    
     expertise in  board ...  support and  implementation of                                                                    
     board directives.  In addition  to the many boards that                                                                    
     we have under the  [Division of Corporations, Business,                                                                    
     and Professional  Licensing, the DCCED] ...  is engaged                                                                    
     with   boards   whose   focus  ranges   from   economic                                                                    
     development, marketing, energy  issues, railroad, [and]                                                                    
     public  utilities.   I  also  want  to point  out  that                                                                    
     planning,  grant  administration, and  ...  interagency                                                                    
     coordination are skill sets of ... [the DCCED].                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     ...  [Regarding the  issue  of] implementation,  first,                                                                    
     [the]  DCCED  will  need  to  secure  the  funding  for                                                                    
     division staff,  board travel, meeting costs.   And ...                                                                    
     whether  an appropriation  comes  from the  legislature                                                                    
     before or  after the initiative  vote will  dictate how                                                                    
     quickly we can implement the  program.  Next we'll need                                                                    
     to get [the proposed new  division of ocean and coastal                                                                    
     management]  ... up  and running.    The division  will                                                                    
     certainly carry  out many  of the  administrative tasks                                                                    
     and  board support  associated with  the program,  but,                                                                    
     again, there's an area where  the board does define the                                                                    
     scope of the program.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER BELL continued:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     ...  We'll  need to  reach  outside  [the DCCED's]  ...                                                                    
     current  expertise,   since  the  program   deals  with                                                                    
     setting    standards    and    coordinating    permits.                                                                    
     Initially,  [the   DCCED]  ...   may  develop   an  RSA                                                                    
     [(reimbursable  services agreement)]  with other  state                                                                    
     resource  agencies,   contract  for   services,  and/or                                                                    
     recruit from  ... other  agencies; ...  [it's] inherent                                                                    
     in this  program ... that  we'll need to  think [about]                                                                    
     how we  would approach  that.  Initially,  the division                                                                    
     staff will be  very focused on planning,  ... since the                                                                    
     program cannot  be implemented until the  state program                                                                    
     is established and  local plans are approved.   We note                                                                    
     that we need  to hire project review staff,  maybe at a                                                                    
     secondary stage.   So, again,  back to  that sequencing                                                                    
     issue.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:51:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Simultaneously,   the   governor's   office   will   be                                                                    
     selecting board members - and  we point out a couple of                                                                    
     items that relate to the  timing and selection of board                                                                    
     members.   The  initiative states  that districts  will                                                                    
     forward names  for appointment by the  governor; ... it                                                                    
     breaks  the  state ...  down  into  regions from  which                                                                    
     board members  come ..., and  names are  forwarded from                                                                    
     the districts.  If any  given region has only districts                                                                    
     that  are  in  organized communities  ...,  then  those                                                                    
     districts can forward  names.  If a given  region has a                                                                    
     mix  of  districts  that  are  and  are  not  organized                                                                    
     communities,  then those  that  are  organized will  be                                                                    
     able to forward names, and  those that are not will not                                                                    
     be able  to do  so until  the coastal  resource service                                                                    
     area  elections   are  conducted.     [And]   we  don't                                                                    
     anticipate any vacancies  on the board, but  we ... see                                                                    
     some sequencing issues there [as well].                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Finally, there's  a question  of how much  program work                                                                    
     should be  completed before  board confirmation  by the                                                                    
     legislature, recognizing  that ... board  actions could                                                                    
     be  vulnerable to  a third-party  challenge.   Once the                                                                    
     board and ... support staff  are in place, the business                                                                    
     of developing  the program will  begin.  This is  a key                                                                    
     point  in   time  because  so  much,   again,  will  be                                                                    
     determined by the board.   The initiative establishes a                                                                    
     division of [ocean and]  coastal management that adopts                                                                    
     regulations,  and requires  the  board  to approve  the                                                                    
     regulations, ... and [so] the  ordinary steps under the                                                                    
     [Administrative Procedure Act] will  be subject to some                                                                    
     delay ... until public comment has been gathered.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER BELL went on to say:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The  heart of  the  coastal management  program is  the                                                                    
     body of  enforceable policies adopted at  statewide and                                                                    
     coastal district levels - and  ... I point out that ...                                                                    
     [previous]   programs  here   in   our  state   allowed                                                                    
     districts  to develop  plans that  were implemented  by                                                                    
     state  agencies, [whereas]  some  other states  develop                                                                    
     programs  at  a  state  level and  [then]  allow  local                                                                    
     districts to  implement them - and  these variables are                                                                    
     left to  the discretion  of the  board as  they develop                                                                    
     the  new program.   Once  the  board sets  the path  to                                                                    
     pursue,  staff  will set  out  to  further develop  the                                                                    
     program  and  engage the  public  -  that's a  critical                                                                    
     element ...  of the  federal requirement; we  also need                                                                    
     to engage the federal agency with jurisdiction.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:54:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  BELL, in  response to  a question,  noted that  the                                                               
speed   with  which   necessary  funding   is  provided   by  the                                                               
legislature  will   affect  how   quickly  the  program   can  be                                                               
implemented.  Returning to her explanation, she said:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Before  the program  can fully  take effect  on federal                                                                    
     lands and  federal activities, it must  be ... reviewed                                                                    
     and  approved  by  the [federal  Office  of  Ocean  and                                                                    
     Coastal Resource Management], and  that requires a NEPA                                                                    
     [(National  Environmental Policy  Act of  1969)] review                                                                    
     ... and  either an environmental assessment  or a full-                                                                    
     blown  environmental impact  statement  [(EIS)].   Once                                                                    
     approved,   the  program   will   need   to  be   fully                                                                    
     implemented  and  the  transition within  the  division                                                                    
     needs  to take  place, and  ...  this ...  is likely  a                                                                    
     juncture where the project review  staff would begin to                                                                    
     engage.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER BELL,  in response to another  question, offered her                                                               
understanding that under  11ACMP, all of the  district plans that                                                               
were in  effect when the  previous program ceased would  again be                                                               
in effect  once approved by  the board.   Continuing on  with her                                                               
explanation, she said:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     While  this federal  review will  not necessarily  cost                                                                    
     the   state  money,   it  will   create  a   period  of                                                                    
     uncertainty  the  board  will  have  [needed]  to  have                                                                    
     considered  when   it  approves  regulations   for  the                                                                    
     program.   When  the program  takes effect  will matter                                                                    
     greatly.    There's  also  a  question  about  ...  the                                                                    
     program's impact on state reviews:   will projects with                                                                    
     multiple  state  permits  be required  to  be  reviewed                                                                    
     under  the program  prior to  federal approval?  ... In                                                                    
     looking ahead  at implementation, some of  these things                                                                    
     may be resolved by the  board, some of these things may                                                                    
     require  discussion  with  the board  and  the  federal                                                                    
     agency  that  approves  the   program.    Full  program                                                                    
     implementation,  including  project reviews  and  local                                                                    
     district  planning,  will depend  on  ...  some of  the                                                                    
     decisions made by the board.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:58:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER BELL  suggested that 11ACMP's proposed  AS 46.41.080                                                               
and proposed  AS 46.41.090 require further  clarification in that                                                               
the former  stipulates that implementation  shall be  carried out                                                               
by  either a  coastal  district or  state  agencies depending  on                                                               
whether  the  district  exercises  zoning or  other  controls  on                                                               
resource use, and the latter  stipulates that both municipalities                                                               
and state agencies shall carry out enforcement.  She added:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Finally,  the initiative  calls for  the [the  proposed                                                                    
     new  division  of  ocean  and  coastal  management]  to                                                                    
     develop and maintain a  program of financial assistance                                                                    
     to aid  local districts  with implementation,  and, for                                                                    
     many  of  the  reasons  that I've  described  ...  this                                                                    
     afternoon,  there is  some uncertainty  about when  the                                                                    
     program would fully kick in.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER BELL, in conclusion, said:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     How the  board addresses these types  of questions will                                                                    
     determine staffing levels,  needed expertise within the                                                                    
     department  initially and  then  subsequently once  the                                                                    
     full  program's implemented,  the  level of  assistance                                                                    
     the  state   and  the   department  provide   to  local                                                                    
     districts,  and what  appropriations will  be necessary                                                                    
     to operate the program effectively.  Thank you.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   COGHILL  -   noting   that   under  11ACMP's   proposed                                                               
AS 46.41.110(d)(1),   when  an   existing  regional   educational                                                               
attendance area  (REAA) is divided into  coastal resource service                                                               
areas, each  such service area  shall contain at least  one first                                                               
class city  or home rule  city -  mentioned that he  is wondering                                                               
whether complying  with that provision  would even  be physically                                                               
possible.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:01:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN BOUCHER,  Senior Economist,  Office of the  Director, Office                                                               
of  Management &  Budget  (OMB), Office  of  the Governor,  after                                                               
mentioning that  the document in members'  packets titled "11ACMP                                                               
STATEMENT  OF COSTS"  was included  in the  proposed initiative's                                                               
petition  booklets   as  required  by  law,   explained  that  in                                                               
producing the  estimate of implementation costs,  the OMB [sought                                                               
input] from  the affected state  agencies - including  the DCCED,                                                               
the ADF&G, the DEC, the DNR,  and the Division of Elections - and                                                               
from  staff  of  the  U.S.   Department  of  Commerce's  national                                                               
program.  This estimate, based  only on known costs, assumes that                                                               
the operation  and procedural  requirements of  11ACMP's proposed                                                               
program  would result  in most,  if not  all, of  the same  costs                                                               
associated with the program that  existed prior to July 2011, and                                                               
highlights  the   differences  between  such  costs   when  those                                                               
differences were ascertainable.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOUCHER  mentioned  that  the  most  notable  administrative                                                               
difference  pertains to  the  proposed  13-member Alaska  Coastal                                                               
Policy Board.   This  proposed board would  have broad  powers to                                                               
establish a program, policies, and/or  procedures that could vary                                                               
widely from  what used  to be  in place,  and any  such variances                                                               
could also  result in actual costs  being substantially different                                                               
from estimates as  well.  He indicated that the  latter is likely                                                               
simply because there  are still many unknowns  about the proposed                                                               
program, such  as how often the  board will really have  to meet,                                                               
the level  and timing  of federal  funding, agency-implementation                                                               
and administration  costs, the  extent of  necessary coordination                                                               
and enforcement  efforts, and  the level  of financial  and other                                                               
support provided to local districts.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOUCHER  said that  estimated  costs  for 11ACMP's  proposed                                                               
program come  to approximately $5.4  million annually,  with $4.7                                                               
million being the amount estimated  for the previous program, and                                                               
$700,000 being the amount  estimated for providing administrative                                                               
support to the proposed Alaska  Coastal Policy Board.  Typically,                                                               
it  can take  approximately two  years for  a coastal  management                                                               
program   to  be   approved  by   the  federal   government,  and                                                               
approximately  three to  four more  years for  it to  qualify for                                                               
full federal  funding, which, in  this instance, would  be capped                                                               
at  $2 million.   Until  the proposed  new program  becomes fully                                                               
eligible for  full federal funding,  however, the state  would be                                                               
responsible for all  costs, though it is estimated  that at least                                                               
some federal  funding would  be forthcoming  after the  first two                                                               
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOUCHER, in  response to  comments  and questions,  surmised                                                               
that  all   state  funding  would   be  subject   to  legislative                                                               
appropriation; agreed to conduct  more research regarding some of                                                               
the  OMB's  estimates;  and  explained  that  the  aforementioned                                                               
$700,000  would  address more  than  just  travel costs  for  the                                                               
proposed  board, that  the OMB  derived that  number from  fiscal                                                               
notes  accompanying   past  legislation,   and  that   the  OMB's                                                               
estimates  do  take  into  consideration   costs  that  would  be                                                               
incurred  by  the  Division  of Elections,  do  not  reflect  any                                                               
potential [lessening]  of costs related to  starting the proposed                                                               
program  up,  and  assume  that policy  board  members  would  be                                                               
meeting in  person at each  of the four required  meetings though                                                               
they would only be required to do so for one of those meetings.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  BELL  added  that  any lessening  of  costs  during                                                               
startup would  likely be offset by  additional costs specifically                                                               
related to startup.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOUCHER concurred,  and offered  some  possible examples  of                                                               
such.   In  response to  another  question, he  relayed that  the                                                               
decisions  regarding where  the  proposed  Alaska Coastal  Policy                                                               
Board shall be located and where  it shall hold its meetings have                                                               
yet to be made.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:20:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE M.  BOTELHO, Chair,  Alaska Sea  Party:   Restoring Coastal                                                               
Management,  in response  to  questions and  speaking  as one  of                                                               
11ACMP's  joint  prime  sponsors,  opined  that  Alaska  needs  a                                                               
coastal management program because Alaskans  need a voice.  Under                                                               
federal  law, states  that have  an  approved coastal  management                                                               
program  in place  have the  authority to  review and  approve or                                                               
disapprove proposed federal activity  in their coastal zones, and                                                               
Alaska - until  recently - had exercised such  authority, and had                                                               
done  so  for  well  over   a  generation.    This  authority  is                                                               
particularly important  given the volume of  coastline in Alaska,                                                               
and the  importance of  that coastline to  the industries  of the                                                               
state.   Of concern to  him, he  relayed, is that  communities be                                                               
provided  a  voice  regarding local  [federal]  development,  but                                                               
without  a coastal  management program  in place,  neither Alaska                                                               
nor its  communities have such  a voice -  they have no  right to                                                               
review proposed  federal activity.   In  fact, when  the previous                                                               
program  was allowed  to sunset,  the federal  government stopped                                                               
submitting  its coastal-development  proposals  for state  review                                                               
and approval.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOTELHO referred to the  document in members' packets titled,                                                               
"11ACMP  STATEMENT  OF COSTS"  and  offered  his belief  that  it                                                               
overstates the  annual cost of 11ACMP's  proposed program because                                                               
it  doesn't reflect  any decreasing  of costs  that would  result                                                               
during the  startup period -  such as those related  to decreased                                                               
staffing levels  - and doesn't  include board-support  costs that                                                               
are  in  line with  those  of  other  boards.   He  offered  some                                                               
alternative  estimates,  which he  indicated  were  based on  the                                                               
previous program and on other boards.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:28:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOTELHO explained  that in order to eliminate the  need for a                                                               
particular developer  to have  to go  to many  different agencies                                                               
for  his/her   permits,  Alaska's  previous   coastal  management                                                               
program had permit coordination as  one of its primary goals, and                                                               
11ACMP incorporates  such permit  coordination into  its proposed                                                               
program.     The  degree  to   which  that   permit  coordination                                                               
expedites, rather than delays, projects,  would, he predicted, be                                                               
an element of  any discussions that take  place regarding 11ACMP.                                                               
Again, without  an approved coastal management  program in place,                                                               
neither  Alaska  nor its  communities  have  any voice  regarding                                                               
proposed federal activity in Alaska's  coastal zones; with such a                                                               
program in  place in Alaska,  the federal government  would again                                                               
be required  to seek  state/community approval  before commencing                                                               
with its projects.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOTELHO  explained that 11ACMP's  proposed program  would not                                                               
constitute a  permitting agency.   All  the permitting  powers of                                                               
the  DEC,  the  ADF&G,  and  the  DNR  would  remain  with  those                                                               
agencies,  and  the DCCED  would  merely  act as  a  facilitating                                                               
agency for  the coordination  of required  permits.   So although                                                               
there were an array of  acceptable, reasonable choices, the joint                                                               
prime  sponsors chose  the DCCED  to have  purview over  11ACMP's                                                               
proposed program  because the  DCCED has  historic ties  to local                                                               
governments  and has  administered the  grant program  to coastal                                                               
districts; in the  joint prime sponsors' view, the  DCCED has the                                                               
expertise  - in  terms  of both  grant  administration and  board                                                               
management - to perform the required functions.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOTELHO  assured the committees that  under 11ACMP's proposed                                                               
AS 46.41.090, enforcement of the  policy board's lawful orders by                                                               
the Alaska Superior Court would  only occur after a determination                                                               
that  an entity  [administered  regulations or  controls] out  of                                                               
conformity with  a district's  approved coastal  management plan;                                                               
and that  under 11ACMP's proposed  AS 46.41.060(b), in  order for                                                               
such a  plan to have  been approved in  the first place,  it must                                                               
[have  enforceable policies  that  among other  things,] are  not                                                               
preempted  by federal  or state  law  and do  not arbitrarily  or                                                               
unreasonably  restrict  a  use  of state  concern.    He  opined,                                                               
therefore, that 11ACMP  makes it very clear that  other state law                                                               
may not be  trumped; and then indicated that  certain of 11ACMP's                                                               
proposed  definitions  came from  the  regulations  that were  in                                                               
place under the previous program.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOTELHO said  that without  an  approved coastal  management                                                               
program in place, the federal  government can - without any state                                                               
constraint -  act as it  pleases with regard to  Alaska's coastal                                                               
zones.   In terms of  restoring a local voice,  11ACMP's proposed                                                               
program  would  do  so  in  two ways:    by  retaining  [already-                                                               
established]  coastal districts,  and by  requiring policy  board                                                               
members to come from the various coastal districts of the state.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:45:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GAIL FENUMIAI,  Director, Central Office, Division  of Elections,                                                               
Office of  the Lieutenant Governor -  after providing information                                                               
about   the  initiative   process  and   its  requirements,   the                                                               
division's work  on 11ACMP, the  timelines pertaining  to 11ACMP,                                                               
and the signatures gathered thus  far - relayed that the division                                                               
is  anticipating  that  there will  ultimately  be  a  sufficient                                                               
number  of valid  signatures  to include  11ACMP  on the  primary                                                               
ballot in 2012.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:52:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committees, the joint                                                                
meeting of the House Judiciary Standing Committee and the Senate                                                                
Judiciary Standing Committee was adjourned at 2:52 p.m.                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
11ACMP-StatementOfCosts.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM
ACMP Initiative.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM
HJUD Hearing Notice Memo 2-1-12.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM
Joint JUD Hearing Notice ACMP.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM
ACMP Comparison.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM
Initiative Laws and Legislative Review.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM
Initiatives Rep. Johansen Memo.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM
ACMP Lt. Governor Memo.pdf HJUD 2/6/2012 1:00:00 PM